Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

I've been thinking of making a tulpa as creating a sort of sandbox or something(not very familiar with terminology still) that allows a second algorithm to grow to the point where it can also use the OS

6:22 PM

but this is all early thoughts on the matter

The thing I would not be so sure on is the notion of pre-installed behaviours and motivators. My experiences suggest that a surprisingly large amount of human "needs" are... not really needs to the brain, but things we learn to want.

I'm talking instinctual things, like being afraid of the dark that don't necessarily need taught

6:24 PM

evolved survival behaviours

Not everyone is afraid of the dark though. And it would be just as valid to say a baby experiences darkness, contemplates possible dangers, then becomes afraid of the dark, and that becomes ingrained over time. Even basic pain; A human can enjoy if given the right context.

6:27 PM

I think I come down pretty consistently on the "It's nurture, but the core behaviours of recognition of good and bad are ingrained" side of things (edited)

sorry, might be a bit distracted, just started talking with someone else what responses are in-built would be up for debate and research to identify, but there are definite ones I think, things as basic as pain=bad and being startled if something pops up near you that you weren't expecting

6:29 PM

things built into the body that directly affect the mind's development I guess, I dunno

what happened while I was gone

missed the pain line, I think that might have to be learned or caused by a defect but I'm not sure

CrazyJeb

missed the pain line, I think that might have to be learned or caused by a defect but I'm not sure

Did you know babies enjoy bashing their heads against stuff?

6:31 PM

They visibly do it for fun in a fair percentile of them. It's been a while since I absorbed that particular fact though, so perhaps validate it.

1

6:33 PM

I think context is extremely important to how pain is processed.

1

Zen

Did you know babies enjoy bashing their heads against stuff?

At a glance of the ol' google it does indeed seem to be a thing.

6:34 PM

Regardless I've been getting distracted and my bear boyfriend wants to me to continue spending time with him. I will go now.

Cya Zen, I'm gonna go focus on my other conversation

I didn't know that about babies (bashing heads is a thing) and I've raised a couple of them up close and personal. Though also, it's possible to hit your head comfortably UP TO A POINT, if you do it right or hit the right type of object. One of the weirdest tricks in self-defense is that when you know it's too late to block or duck, you can often take a punch to the head BETTER by "attacking the incoming fist" (or even a hard object.) With a fist you can often just destroy the hand it's not 'wrapped' for boxing, and you hit it closer to the start before all of the momentum is built, plus you head doesn't get knocked BACK which usually causes most of the serious brain trauma from strikes. Instead it plays the role of a 11 lb. (5 kg) bowling ball -- try striking one of those with an unprotected hand sometime (well don't TRY it, just do the thought experiment.)

I just realized there are a handful of ironies having Ranger:

I see myself as male in wonderland, we show signs we're destined to be trans, Ranger changes her mind from adamantly trans fTM to female.

A lot of tulpamancers are insecure about roleplaying and Ranger likes to roleplay

Tulpas are sometimes seen as guardians and Ranger did this until she changed her mind.

Ranger wanted nothing to do with possession for months. She figures it out and it's one of her favorite topics.

There may be more but those are the ones that come to mind

So the takeaway is not to trust Ranger's judgement at all?

4:07 PM

Gotcha.

Oh obviously. You can't trust Ranger to think above tulpamancer stereotypes, that would induce logic!

Gray | Shadow System

I just realized there are a handful of ironies having Ranger:

I see myself as male in wonderland, we show signs we're destined to be trans, Ranger changes her mind from adamantly trans fTM to female.

A lot of tulpamancers are insecure about roleplaying and Ranger likes to roleplay

Tulpas are sometimes seen as guardians and Ranger did this until she changed her mind.

Ranger wanted nothing to do with possession for months. She figures it out and it's one of her favorite topics.

There may be more but those are the ones that come to mind

Silly ranger

me thinking about saying what I was gonna say

5:36 PM

me realizing that might make some folks way of doing things feel threatened or whatever the hell

5:36 PM

I can't win.

Don't worry about people feeling threatened

1

I'm not going to be offended if you straight up call me fake. You would not be the first

But anyway, tulpamancy in general worries me not because of the participants, the idea of it, or because I personally want to nitpick tulpamancy. I've got a tulpa myself. And he's just about a perfect of a person as the bent spork. Lmao. I'm right there with him. My intent is not to harm anyone here. And I'm just the same as all of you. If not even more because my idiot tulpa is something that genuinely makes me giggle. Anyway

back to it The thing that worries me about tulpamancy is that there were ideas and understandings in ancient history about thoughtforms in general. They were not explicitly called tulpas. Some of the books I read were about something called a "dola." And in my opinion, gods fall into the same realm of mental processing as thoughtforms themselves.

5:42 PM

There are so many things you can source modern tulpamancy from. But in the end it was all tulpamancy. The process of creating or acknowledging separate entities, either externally or internally.

5:43 PM

And there were rules, helpful ideas, and understandings in all facets of this that tulpamancy as a modern subculture and theory could have adapted naturally into it's definition.

5:44 PM

Some things that helped was the distinction of different types of systems, different tulpas, and different relationships between the tulpa and host.

5:46 PM

Buttt, there's hardly anything put in place explicitly to serve as the guidelines of foundation, concerning how you should interpret some things. I'm not saying there should be official rules on how to do tulpamancy either. I think certain methods should be explored and then supplied, tacted onto the actual definition of tulpamancy itself.

5:47 PM

Not only does it provide a level of customization and authenticity for hosts and practitioners, but it also makes it safer while paying respect to other more vague, allusive, and foreign forms of thoughtforming and old ancient "tulpamancy."

I agree there's a lot of things modern tulpamancy could be the source of. Especially with a lot of accidental systems pouring into the practice, you have everything from someone who used to roleplay to imaginary friend become tulpa to traditional tulpas made from reading guides. If you're concerned there's an agreed upon consensus on what a tulpa even is, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Everyone has their own unique idea of what a tulpa is, the only real common ground people have around here is the cause is psychological, and even then there's nuance.

Ayyyeee, someone used the term "modern tulpamancy!" I must of made sense! wheeze

5:51 PM

I'm playing around, lmao

5:53 PM

But yeah, I don't really or know what people thing tulpas are. I just know I have a process/set of guidelines for how I interpret tulpamancy, inspired by the Aghori, animism, and general modern tulpamancy.

5:54 PM

While that does INCLUDE a specific way of seeing tulpas, including an opinion of what they are, my guidelines aren't supposed to reflect what everyone else needs.

5:54 PM

Even if they are full proof lmao

5:55 PM

( FOR ME I MEAN, Y'ALL SHOULDN'T JUST HAVE EM WILLY NILLY AND EXPECT IT TO WORK )

I get the sense you're beating around the bush. You seem anxious about stepping on people's toes and I want to find whatever that is and talk about that. If I'm following you correctly, you have a specific definition for what a tulpa is and not all tulpas in the community fit that definition?

This is kinda the customization aspect. I like seeing others with different types of tulpas and whatnot. It often brings out the best of their qualities. I want to see that for people and their guidelines, even if I think my way of doing things is nice. My perception of reality is literally not shared by anyone else. That's the second rule I have. Practical and honest. And kinda prevents me from feeling prideful or arrogant LIKE SOMEONE IN MY HEAD.

5:57 PM

Oop

A long kiss goodnight

I get the sense you're beating around the bush. You seem anxious about stepping on people's toes and I want to find whatever that is and talk about that. If I'm following you correctly, you have a specific definition for what a tulpa is and not all tulpas in the community fit that definition?

I completely missed your message

I read now

A long kiss goodnight

I get the sense you're beating around the bush. You seem anxious about stepping on people's toes and I want to find whatever that is and talk about that. If I'm following you correctly, you have a specific definition for what a tulpa is and not all tulpas in the community fit that definition?

Yeah, but that's just me.

5:59 PM

What I want to actually see in tulpamancy communities is just more acknowledgement of different ways people can start. Different ways of making it easier sourced from real life stuff that helped others in the past. (edited)

6:00 PM

When I first joined the online community I was adamant that others should have been doing it my way, but after both switching and considering my second rule, I've come to the understanding that people should have a way of doing things that is right for them.

6:02 PM

I can no more expect others to understand my situation than I can expect to understand theirs. Even if what I understand tulpamancy to be on it's most basic level provides me with the confidence and strength I have even to question the norm.

6:03 PM

And even if what I know is knowable and understandable to whoever looks below the surface level, others may interpret that differently. And that's kinda the beautiful thing. ✨

We started off in a similar boat- I was a lot more judgemental of other people's tulpas than I am now. I realized as you said the system gets to decide what a tulpa is, not an outsider. However, I think you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want. I think it's polite to give tulpas who identify as tulpas respect by calling them tulpas. However, whether or not you really believe they're tulpas or not you can keep to yourself

That's the fascinating thing though.

6:11 PM

My way of seeing tulpamancy doesn't exclude any type of tulpa, merely how they exist in relationship to the host. ( None of this is really important to the conversation, but I'll elaborate because I want to, lmao. ) The first tenet of the guidelines I've established for myself is that all thoughtforms are objectively real, are flexible enough to serve any terminology that is applied in accordance to what can be rationalized by their interpretation of their own identity.

We do not have any resources on what old thoughtform/tulpa creation practices were. There is the book Magic and Mystery in Tibet, which I understand kickstarted things online some years ago, but I don't think the book is particularly a good source for learning tulpamancy

Tulpamancy in the context of theosophy is lifted not from Tibetan practice but from western esotericism.

6:13 PM

There are plenty of sources of exactly that in things like christian necromancy, hermeticism, and in more modern times things like chaos magic.

6:13 PM

But I would actually argue that the old methods all have serious flaws because they are always magical.

6:14 PM

Which means they have certain presumptions that are inherently dangerous to the user. Things like "A tulpa is an external being, who might feasibly want to harm me".

But my way of thinking also includes the belief that all tulpas, thoughtforms, or projections are an attempt with the host to speak with themselves. Themselves being the infinite cosmos, god, their subconscious, literally anything. It's all connected. The greatest illusion of life is separation. Anything you think is separate and different is actually one in the same. And through that understanding, me and my system have no doubts or insecurities about what is real and what is not. And we do not feel the need to say anything about how real others are. Realness literally doesn't apply. If someone isn't real, none of us are real. It's all the same fabric, just different cuts and cloth.

Zen

Which means they have certain presumptions that are inherently dangerous to the user. Things like "A tulpa is an external being, who might feasibly want to harm me".

Mhm, what little we have heard from occult practices, includes a lot of "this is really dangerous and you need to take all these precautions in case your thoughtform goes rogue and attacks you" (edited)

Deleted User

But my way of thinking also includes the belief that all tulpas, thoughtforms, or projections are an attempt with the host to speak with themselves. Themselves being the infinite cosmos, god, their subconscious, literally anything. It's all connected. The greatest illusion of life is separation. Anything you think is separate and different is actually one in the same. And through that understanding, me and my system have no doubts or insecurities about what is real and what is not. And we do not feel the need to say anything about how real others are. Realness literally doesn't apply. If someone isn't real, none of us are real. It's all the same fabric, just different cuts and cloth.

How do I know all this, and how do I understand this? Literally from studying everything else, not just tulpamancy. This is what I mean by sources and drawing inspiration from old practices. Tulpamancy never existed in the past, but this way of thinking did. Thoughtforms, gods, and all that all had objective simple rules that you could draw inspiration from to determine how you should build the foundation of your own experience with tulpamancy. Tulpamancy didn't need to have a name in the past to exist. No one just brought all these aspects and ideas together into tulpamancy as we know it now. Which is honestly better that occultist ideas or something with little development, meant to scare people. ( I'm not speaking for every occultist path, but seriously. )

6:22 PM

Tulpamancy literally comes from these practices in a direct and traceable way, even if the tulpamancers do not know it. That is exactly how tulpamancy was put together. (edited)

6:24 PM

It's straight from /x/

I'm going to apologize for possibly the whitest take on this possible, but the idea of everyone being one isn't a stranger to us thanks to a class reading Gray did on Siddhartha. I believe this is related to the idea in Buddhism that all life is one in the same, there is no unique personality because we're all pieces of humanity, the human collective. Gray have a very literal interpretation of this- if you connected every living human's brain with every other tulpamancy is necessary to preserve any separate personalities

6:27 PM

=== I think the question of where tulpas come from is now two different discussions. There's the question of how modern tulpamancy came about and then the question if tulpamancy is just part of being human... I think

6:27 PM

Well I confused myself, I don't know what I'm saying

A long kiss goodnight

I get the sense you're beating around the bush. You seem anxious about stepping on people's toes and I want to find whatever that is and talk about that. If I'm following you correctly, you have a specific definition for what a tulpa is and not all tulpas in the community fit that definition?

This actually is kinda something to mention. I entered the community and saw none of the guidelines I understood about the foundations of (my own) tulpamancy experience. And I literally couldn't fathom it. I felt concerned and even frightened for all of you, worried about what type of corner of hell I had just found. But I was pleasantly reminded that all was well, and that it wasn't a lack of the guidelines I understood that were missing... just any guidelines in general for people to begin or operate their experience in a structured understandable way. Both arrogance and fear were factors in my initial assessment, but following my guidelines when I was actually in the correct mind to think, well, that changed my perception of the situation real quickly.

(edited)

Deleted User

What I want to actually see in tulpamancy communities is just more acknowledgement of different ways people can start. Different ways of making it easier sourced from real life stuff that helped others in the past. (edited)

What I want to actually see in tulpamancy communities is just more acknowledgement of different ways people can start. Different ways of making it easier sourced from real life stuff that helped others in the past

I have actually seen a lot of openness to people who created tulpas/thoughtforms/headmates from different starting points, outside the community. People who just had one come to them from nowhere in the past and have been living together since, people who made imaginary friends, and so on. I do see some dogma about how people "should" do tulpamancy, but I believe people are always free to do what they feel right for them

Zen

Tulpamancy literally comes from these practices in a direct and traceable way, even if the tulpamancers do not know it. That is exactly how tulpamancy was put together. (edited)

Deleted User

This actually is kinda something to mention. I entered the community and saw none of the guidelines I understood about the foundations of (my own) tulpamancy experience. And I literally couldn't fathom it. I felt concerned and even frightened for all of you, worried about what type of corner of hell I had just found. But I was pleasantly reminded that all was well, and that it wasn't a lack of the guidelines I understood that were missing... just any guidelines in general for people to begin or operate their experience in a structured understandable way. Both arrogance and fear were factors in my initial assessment, but following my guidelines when I was actually in the correct mind to think, well, that changed my perception of the situation real quickly.

(edited)

Dakota, I really am curious, what guidelines?

6:29 PM

You seem to be somewhat dancing around the topic. It's fine if you don't want to say, but it's weird for you to be talking around your own topic in that way.

(If relevant... You can always talk about this in #metaphysics too)

Zen

You seem to be somewhat dancing around the topic. It's fine if you don't want to say, but it's weird for you to be talking around your own topic in that way.

Well, I was dancing around it mostly because I don't want others to take it and run, because Lord knows someone in my system would feel a sort of smug arrogant happiness from that.

Instead of what we SHOULD be feeling.

I'm starting to grasp your perspective now, Dakota

My goal is to educate everyone, point things out, and try to allow everyone the tools they need to be safe. Not share our way of doing things because we think it is correct. Or whatever the hell.

I personally have the feeling you really want to share your model, and if that's the case that's fine. All tulpamancers like talking about how they think tulpamancy works

A long kiss goodnight

I personally have the feeling you really want to share your model, and if that's the case that's fine. All tulpamancers like talking about how they think tulpamancy works

Oh believe me, I do.

6:33 PM

But safety is more important.

Yes, I too want to know Dakota's guidelines

I don't think you are providing much of anything, to be blunt with you. You're not providing a model here, you're providing abstractions that don't mean anything in a vacuum without practice.

Deleted User

My goal is to educate everyone, point things out, and try to allow everyone the tools they need to be safe. Not share our way of doing things because we think it is correct. Or whatever the hell.

To be safe? Interesting. I personally find in tulpamancy that info hazards are only info hazards if you believe them to be. If not, you can almost always disarm them by thinking about it from a different angle

It's like teaching a buddhist how to attain enlightenment by simply telling them the high level concepts.

6:34 PM

It doesn't work that way.

Yeah just spit it, Dakota

We've heard and understood the disclaimer

Name an info hazard and I can probably figure out a way to disarm it

They duck out? Shame. :/

Back from the shower.

6:41 PM

No we didn't duck out.

You crazy.

That reminds me, I should set aside some mutual showering action time ... (edited)

If it makes you more comfortable Dakota, I don't mind if you DM me your concerns. We are no strangers to info hazards and we have moved forward by disarming them (edited)

Me reading your responses and feeling uncertain anyway about saying anything.

6:43 PM

Meanwhile my system mate loosing his mind in the corner.

6:44 PM

I'm sniggering to myself and my uncle is wondering what the fuck is so funny

6:45 PM

But anyway lmao

I can only really speculate as to why you won't share the concepts, but if we're talking tantra, then it's common "wisdom" that certain tantric practices should not be performed by those who are new to meditation, lest it fry their brains or whatever. But there is no evidence for that, in the slightest.

6:46 PM

You did bring up buddhism and hinduism before, so perhaps that is what you mean?

Even if I will elaborate it'll take me a moment to actually type down. We never really thought of documentation or whatnot. Since our way of doing things is kinda just common knowledge to us. Which ultimately says a little about how many times I've actually repeated them to the others in my system but still.

(edited)

6:47 PM

Goddamn I feel like an overzealous mom.